New guy from Italy - Engine transplant

[rostro]

Good morning everyone.
I apologise for writing in English, but I can't write in German.

I am an Italian owner of a fantastic X1/9, 1988, Bertone, and I am using it for trackdays.


This pic was take in Misano circuit
http://www.cinghialoni.org/misano_night ... ustom).JPG

and this one was shot in Imola
http://www.cinghialoni.org/imolaromoli2 ... ustom).JPG

As you can see, I tried to make the car lighter, with a "1300" look, light bumpers and front spoiler.

I am currently working on GPR parts to make it even lighter.

The car is currently not bad, on the track; it is "almost" as far as a Lotus Elise (but the Elise must ber real standard, and its driver must not be a very good one)

I am quite satisfied with the chassis, with suspensions, springs, and with brakes. The engine.... hmmmm.... it now has 125 PS, but it's still not what I like....

I was thinking of an engine transplant, but...
1) in Italy it's NOT legal
2) I'd prefer non to put Fiat Uno Turbo, for I prefer non-turbo engines
3) I don't want the engine to weight too much, for it would change the perfect balancing of the car.

Two years ago at the Nuerburgring I met a german guy with a wonderful X1/9, with Uno turbo Engine on. He told me that engine transplant in Germany IS legal.

Can someone help me, and explain to me HOW could engine transplant be done in a LEGAL way in Germany?

And... second... has anyone tried to transplant some recent engine, like maybe the Fiat 1747 16V ? What gearbox did he use? Has anyone ever tried to put a supercharger ? How did it work with "heal wasting" problems?

Thanks in advance!!

Mario Bertola

[whiskey]

Hi rostro ...

u mean something like that ?

http://www.project-x19.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1920

think u write a "pm" (personal message) to "AlexK." the Cars in the thread belongs to a friend of him (he wrote that in the thread)...

AND

it is legal in Germany ... ok we've "sometimes" trouble with "TÜV", thats a supervisory authority in germany. without an ok from them you've got problems with the police..

"Tüv" looks out, that the Brakes matches to the engine, that all works on sentives spots are well done, the sound is not too loud and so on ...



CU
Whiskey

[Querlenker]

Ciao Mario,

nice car, do you actually race the car in a race series, or do you just participate in track days without actual passing of other cars?
Looks like fun.

About engine swaps, if you already have 125hp and you don't like turbos (which I can understand) then you could swap in a Fiat/Lancia 2L DOHC. There are several different ways of doing this, staight up, inclined forward with different advantages.
There are some guys knowledgeable about this swap, noteably Pottsy in GB and Steve C. in AUS.
I would recommend checking the US X1/9 forum, there have been a couple of discussions on the subject and there are some good pictures to be found as well. Just use the search engine.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/12159

Ulix

[ALQUATI]

Hallo Ulix u. Whiskey, ich nix verstehn

[Streitberg]

Für Waldler

servus Peter, habs mal kurz übersetzt.

Guten Morgen allerseits.
ich entschuldige mich dass ich in Englisch schreibe aber ich kann es nicht in Deutsch.
Ich bin ein italienischer X 1/9 Eigner ich nutze den X bei Trackdays.

Die Bilder sind in Misano und Imola gemacht worden.

Wie Ihr sehen könnt habe ich versucht das Auto leichter zu machen, mit 1300er look.Stoßstanden und Frontspoiler

Gegenwärtig arbeite ich an GPR (?)Teilen um ihn noch leichter zu machen.

Das Auto ich un Augenblick nicht schlecht auf der Strecke, es-ist fast so schnell wie eine Elise, wobei das Elise Standart ist und der Fahrer muß dabei nicht besonders gut sein.

Ich bin eigentlich recht zufrieden mit dem Fahrwerk, den Dampfern, Federn, Bremsen. Der Motor hat 125 PS aber das ist noch nicht ganz das was ich will.

Ich denke über einen Motorumbau nach, aber
1) in Italien ist das nicht erlaubt.
1) Würde ich den UNO Turbo nicht bevorzugen, ich mag keine Turbos.
1) Der Motor sollte nicht zu schwer sein um das Gleichgewicht nicht durcheinander zu bringen.

Vor 2 Jahren traf ich am Nürburgring jemanden mit einem sehr schönen Turbo im X. Er sagte dass so ein Umbau in D. erlaubt sei.
Kann mir jemand helfen und erklären wie der Umbau in D. legal durchgeführt werden kann.

Und, zweitens, hat schon jemand einen anderen Motor eingebaut, z.b. den Fiat 1477 16V.
Welches Getriebe bräuchte man da, hat schon jemand einen Kompressor versucht.

Heal wasting ( weiß ich nicht was damit gemeint ist ? )

Hallo rostro....

Du meinst soetwas....

Warte und schreibe eine pm an alexk, Das Auto auf dem Bild gehört einem freund von ihm. Er schrieb im threat davon.

Und

es ist in D. erlaubt. ok, wir haben manchmal ärger mit dem TÜV, der Aufsichtsbehörde in D. ohne deren OK gibt’s Ärger mit der Polizei.

Der TÜV, den überprüft-ob Bremse noch zur Leistung passt sterben, ob alle eingebauten Teile richtig eingebaut sind , der Krach zu laut et.

Ciao Mario,

schönes Auto, fährst Du damit Rennen in Rennserien oder nimmst Du damit nur bei Track days (was sind das eigentlich für Veranstaltungen Andreas) teil ohne überholmanöver.
Schaut spannend aus.
Bezüglich des Motortauschs, wenn Du bereits 125 PS hast und keinen Turbo magst, was ich verstehen kann, könntest Du einen Fiat Lancia 2.0 ltr. Motor einbauen.
Es gibt mehrere verschiedene Möglichkeiten, aufrecht, nach vorn geneigt mit unterschiedlichen Vorteilen
Es gibt ein paar Jungs sterben da-bescheid-wissen, z.b. Pottsy
in GB und Steve in Australien.
Probier mal was im US--forum geschrieben wird, da gabt es eine Menge Gespräche über das Thema und auch einige Bilder kann man da finden. Vesuchs mit der Suchfunktion.

Das wars, wenn ich da was falsch verstanden hab, dann stellts bitte richtig.
Mit dem Waldler Peter bitte nicht böse nehmen.

Ansonsten find ichs echt gut in unserem Forum, dass auch jemand mit so speziellen Wünschen in einer anderen Sprache so flott und gut bedient wird.
Wenn ich mir überlege, dass ich auf mein zugegebenermaßen schlechtes Englisch im US-Forum oder bei den Engländern überhaupt keine Antwort bekomme.......

Servus
Andreas

[whiskey]

haste gut gemacht, Andreas ... sind dir zwar 1-2 kleine Fehler unterlaufen ... aber puh ... bei den 150000 Worten normal ...

jetzt babbeln wir hier schon wider in Deutsch ... der arme versteht doch nix ...

to rostro ...
sorry for this entry an the entry before ( from Andreas ... ) we wrote again in Germany ( shame on me ) but Andreas translate all entries before in German, cause some guys can't understand English ...

one question ... what mean GPR ? Is that Fibreglas ?

CU
Stephan

[rostro]

Thanks everybody for your kind answers.

yes, GRP = fiberglass. I should be saving some 35 kgs.

I have joined a few races in a "road legal" race series, but I mostly use the car in track days, since I am still learning to drive it. In fact, I recently removed the semi-slicks yokohama A032 tyres to put some Bridgestone "normal" tyres... the car has now less grip, but I can now learn more.

Regarding TUV and engine transplant, I have understood that in Germany you can change the engine, than you go to the TUV examination, and if it's OK they give you a document that states everything's legal.
So maybe I could sell my car to a German person, have the engine changed (and many more things... have the chassis made lighter, have a full safety cage roll bar....), get the TUV approval, and than buy back my car....

I will be at the Nuerburgring with my other car, a Fiat Barchetta, on May 25-27, and on July30-August10th.


Hope to meet someone of you.

Thanks again and have a good time!!


Mario /Rostro

[whiskey]

hmm .. think thats maybee a way for you ...
if the Italian Police say "yes" to such a car... dont know real ... maybee you should ask your italian collegs if its ok to get a modified car legal imported to Italia ...
If it is OK you can go to Switzerland or Austria,also ... think there is same procedure and it is maybee closer to you ?

If you modifie with GFK (the German shortword for Fibreglas) be sure that the statics are well ! (specialy for that use u wont to do !) maybee U must change some parts with enhancements ?

CU
Stephan

[California-Markus]

Thanks everybody for your kind answers.


Regarding TUV and engine transplant, I have understood that in Germany you can change the engine, than you go to the TUV examination, and if it's OK they give you a document that states everything's legal.

Hope to meet someone of you.

Thanks again and have a good time!!


Mario /Rostro

Hi Mario,
unfortunately it's not that easy. If you want to have an engine transplant legalized in Germany, you need to modify suspension and brakes too. And all these mods need different kinds of certificates that prove their safety.
Of course there's no certificate for every mod you do, so you have to have one made by a specialized engineer or the TÜV itself. And this can take several attempts and get very expensive.
Bye,
Markus

PS.: jesus, my english is rusted in badly

[Michael V.]

@Markus: English is like a X: if you don't care for it and use it, it'll get rusty!

[Alex K.]

Hi Mario,

nice to meet you in the german forum! You know, X1/9 Abarth, Volta...?

Whiskey wrote something about a friend of mine with a 2 litre DOHC. It's not easy to put this engine into a X1/9, you have to make several changes and the engine is heavier than the SOHC. One more disadvatage is, that it is not easy to get a TÜV approval. But this engine is absolutely great, it has very much torque and it's possible to get about 150 hp for street use

In the moment I can train my english - in Detroit...

Regards, Alex

[rostro]

Hi Mario,

nice to meet you in the german forum! You know, X1/9 Abarth, Volta...?

Whiskey wrote something about a friend of mine with a 2 litre DOHC. It's not easy to put this engine into a X1/9, you have to make several changes and the engine is heavier than the SOHC.
....
Regards, Alex

Hi Alex! Two weeks ago I spoke with Mr. Volta, in Fiorano. He does not speak english, but if you come to Turin we can have a meeting, and I'll translate.

yes, old 2liters engines are a little bit heavy, but... ))

ciao!

Mario/Rostro